Another new member

[Gonz]

Hi all,

First, thanks for your forum and thanks for all of you that spend time here giving advice and creating this virtual tool for single dads.

In the spirit of the forum, as it seems that almost no amount of information is too much, I'll try to let it all out right here. I'm on the verge of becoming a single father, with two young boys, and a wife who doesn't seem to care that her current actions are going to separate her from her children for the rest of her life. My wife told me this past month that she's been having an affair with an old college boyfreind. What's worse is that she says that she loves him and can't imagine her life without him, and that we need to pursue an open marriage that keeps our "family unit" together, but allows her to continue her relationship with this other guy. I've gone ahead and told her that she needs to make the choice between her family and this guy, because if she continues contact with him then she will lose her kids and her loving husband. Well, she's refusing to end her relationship with this guy so it appears that I'll soon be entering the world of being a single father. My wife has never protested or even blinked at the thought of not being with her kids. In fact, I've seen a couple emails where she simply said she doesn't like being a mom, and doesn't think she's cut out for it.

As far as the skills to be a dad? Well, I've been a stay at home dad for the past 6 years, I love my kids, I think we have a ton of fun together (because mom is so detached) and I look forward to raising them myself. The thought of my wife leaving me and the thought that she would do this to her family absolutely breaks my heart. In fact, it's physically painful to the point of making me sick to my stomach. Hopefully that pain and heartache will go away, but honestly right now I can't ever see myself getting over this and wanting to be with another woman.

I've spoken with an attorney, I've done some research on what to expect in the course of the divorce process. I'm going to request as close to 100% physical and legal custody as I can. I honestly don't think my wife sees this coming. I think that she's decided that since I haven't worked in so long and because I'm 100% dependent on her financially that I'm going to have to do what she wants. Obviously she hasn't done her research about what's coming.

It's a pretty bad place I'm in right now, but it's somewhere that I'm sure alot of you unfortunately have been as well. Thanks again for this resource, I'm sure it's going to help me alot!

[SamIam]

holy cow.

..i really don't know how to respond other than that.

hope it all works out for you, man...

i have a feeling things may get a little dicey and although there's the possibility that you could wind up with the boys as the primary (possibly sole custodian if she doesn't want to have anything to do with them), i would imagine you'll wind up having to find some kind of work, and that could really affect the time you've been able to spend with the boys up to this point.

... but i don't know. ...don't know anybody who's been in that situation, so i'm curious to see some other responses here..

[Seamus]

Hi Gonz and welcome to the forum. I am very sorry for your troubles. I know it's scary right now but believe me better days are coming. Keep heart.

It will be easier for us to know how to advise you on the legal stuff if you give us a little more information.

1. How old are your boys? Are they in school?
2. How long have you been married?
3. Do either of you have other children?
4. Before you became a stay-at-home parent, did you work? Do you have marketable skills?
5. Do you and your wife own your home? If so, do you want to stay in it?

Your marriage is down and probably out. We do not know why, nor it is important for us to know why. It could be her fault entirely. It could be your fault entirely. It could be simply that the marriage was an empty shell for you both and she got fed up with that before you did. What most concerns us is that your kids are cared for in the best way possible, and all else being equal, that means ensuring fathers have the same rights as mothers to rear their children. In your case, with you being the primary caregiver for six years, you are very likely to be awarded primary custody, if not sole custody. But I would suggest that you think about this very carefully. Your wife is not a good wife. That doesn't necessarily mean she is not a good parent. With rare exception, the best interest of the children is served by their having a continuing and significant relationship with both parents, and to have both parents cooperate with each other in their caregiving. Try not to let your anger over her affair determine your custody strategy. If you can let all of that go for the moment and you conclude that she cannot (or does not want to) be a good parent, even part-time, then yes you should seek sole custody. If she fights for some custody though, then it would be up to you to prove the children would suffer harm by being with her for you to get sole custody. It's a very tough battle. If you choose to fight it, make sure it's for the right reasons.

Best,

Seamus

[slowlearner]

I've been in your boat. Twice.
This time, there's no coming back for her.
She left me with the kids in 2006 and she's about to do it again. This time, though, I just don't care.
The first time, she had a boyfriend. This time, I don't believe she does, but I know she is building up to it. She has been withholding all affection despite all I do. Truth be told, she's acting like a teenager. I didn't marry a teenager. I didn't humiliate myself taking a teenager back, and I will burn in hell before I let her live like one.
I'm not sure I have any great advice other than, LET HER GO.
Here's something I read from time to time from the great TD Jakes:

There are people who can walk away from you.

And hear me when I tell you this! When people can walk away from you: let them walk.

I don't want you to try to talk another person into staying with you, loving you, calling you, caring about you, coming to see you, staying attached to you. I mean hang up the phone.

When people can walk away from you... let them walk.

Your destiny is never tied to anybody that left.

The Bible said that, they came out from us that it might be made manifest that they were not for us.

For had they been of us, no doubt they would have continued with us. [1 John 2:19]

People leave you because they are not joined to you. And if they are not joined to you, you can't make them stay.

Let them go.

And it doesn't mean that they are a bad person, it just means that their part in the story is over. And you've got to know when people's part in your story is over so that you don't keep trying to raise the dead.

You've got to know when it's dead.

You've got to know when it's over. Let me tell you something. I've got the gift of good-bye. It's the tenth spiritual gift, I believe in good-bye. It's not that I'm hateful, it's that I'm faithful, and I know whatever God means for me to have He'll give it to me.

And if it takes too much sweat... I don't need it.

Stop begging people to stay.

Let them go!!

If you are holding on to something that doesn't belong to you and was never intended for your life, then you need to......

LET IT GO!!!

If you are holding on to past hurts and pains .....

LET IT GO!!!

If someone can't treat you right, love you back, and see your worth.....

LET IT GO!!!

If someone has angered you ........

LET IT GO!!!

If you are holding on to some thoughts of evil and revenge.

LET IT GO!!!

If you are involved in a wrong relationship or addiction......

LET IT GO!!!

If you are holding on to a job that no longer meets your needs or talents ...

LET IT GO!!!

If you have a bad attitude.......

LET IT GO!!!

If you keep judging others to make yourself feel better......

LET IT GO!!!

If you're stuck in the past and God is trying to take you to a new level in Him......

LET IT GO!!!

If you are struggling with the healing of a broken
relationship.......

LET IT GO!!!

If you keep trying to help someone who won't even try to help themselves......

LET IT GO!!!

If you're feeling depressed and stressed ......

LET IT GO!!!

If there is a particular situation that you are so
used to handling yourself and God is saying "take your hands off of it," then you need to......

LET IT GO!!!

Let the past be the past. Forget the former things.
GOD is doing a new thing for 2005!!!

LET IT GO!!!

Get Right or Get Left .. think about it, and then ...

LET IT GO!!!

[Gonz]

Originally Posted by Seamus

It will be easier for us to know how to advise you on the legal stuff if you give us a little more information.

1. How old are your boys? Are they in school?
2. How long have you been married?
3. Do either of you have other children?
4. Before you became a stay-at-home parent, did you work? Do you have marketable skills?
5. Do you and your wife own your home? If so, do you want to stay in it?

I'll try to answer those questions.

The boys are 3 & 6 years old, the 6 year old is in first grade.

We've been married just over 10 years.

There's no other children.

Before I was a stay at home dad I worked in the financial industry, in a large corporate home office type job. I'm not sure if I have any marketable skills, I feel as though I gave up the potential for moving up in my old job to be home with the kids. The problem is that when I worked in that capacity it was in a large city, both Minneapolis and Denver. Now we live in a very rural part of the state where there's no jobs even close to matching my old experience. She is a physician and earns more than enough that the thought of me going back to work is/was not necessary, and eventually once both kids were in school I would be able to try to learn some new skills or go back to school or find something juts to occupy my time.

We own a home right now, but we just got done with a forclosure and our credit is absolute garbage so we were lucky to hurry up and buy this home before the foreclosure on the other one happened. I don't see myself being able to stay in this town and find suitable work. The attorney I spoke with said that according to MN law, I could move anywhere I want in the state with the kids, but I'd need permission or a court order to be allowed to move out of state. And he also said that until the divorce was finalized he would not recommend that I let her know my intentions of moving away from here. And of course nothing's written in stone, however since I've been the primary care giver and my wife's job requires her to be on call just about 24/7, there's no way that the kids could be with her. If she wanted to stay in the house I'd be fine with that. If she wanted to move out and give me the house that's fine too, I'll just sell it. I'm pretty confident that me and the kids would receive enough child support and maintainance that we could afford to rent a decent place in a good school district down in the cities. And of course add to that any income if I'm able to go back to work. But I'm certainly no expert and I'm guessing there's a ton I don't know yet about this whole process.

[Seamus]

The attorney I spoke with said that according to MN law, I could move anywhere I want in the state with the kids, but I'd need permission or a court order to be allowed to move out of state. And he also said that until the divorce was finalized he would not recommend that I let her know my intentions of moving away from here.

That's good advice from your attorney. It would be very easy for her to prevent you from moving out-of-state with the boys. The only way the court would grant you permission over her objection is if #1 you have sole custody and #2 you can demonstrate an economic necessity, i.e. that your field of expertise is narrow, has little marketability in MN but has marketability elsewhere.

You might succeed in getting sole custody, if she doesn't fight you. Otherwise, the fact that she is on call 24/7 does not by itself deprive her of custody rights. People can and do build support systems to enable them to work, and people can and do alter their work schedules to adjust to life circumstances. If she fights for custody then you would have to prove her to be an abusive mother to deny her any custody.

My best guess right now, based on what you have written, is that you will be granted primary custody and that you will not have to work outside the home until your younger son is in school full-time. Two or three years from now. Then you will be expected to find work. You will continue to get child support but spousal support will diminish or end.

I think you are doing exactly the right thing by offering her the chance to give up the other man and rebuild your marriage. Ten years of marriage, two boys, demanding career -- this has mid-life crisis written all over it. Sometimes people get caught up in their fantasies until reality crashes in and they realize what they may be losing, and come back home. If so, and your heart can let her come back, then there will be damage to work on but many marriages survive and later flourish.

What do your boys know?

Seamus

[Gonz]

I've been trying very hard to make things work between us. When she told me about the affair and that she wanted to be able to keep him in her life, I asked what would happen if it came down to a decision. Of course she said that she would always choose me and the family, but now that I've given her that decision to make she's not willing to give him up. You are right that it does scream mid-life crisis, and her decisions are also being affected by her depression for which she just recently started taking meds again. But honestly, in our situation who wouldn't be depressed?

In a perfect world (to me) she will come to her senses and realize the damage she's done and finally make the decision to give this guy up and work on her family and marriage. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

The boys don't know anything about what's going on and have not seen nor heard anything unusual. Because of her job, my wife is not here for the kids quite often, so lately when she's not been around because she doesn't want to come home and see me the kids haven't thought anything different, and just figure that mom is at work.

I almost feel like she's a ticking time bomb, and if she makes the right decision today to stay with us then it's only a matter of time before she repeats the process that led us to this point. If the kids are going to have to lose a parent I would much prefer it happens now, since I would assume the younger they are the more easily they'll adjust.

[Seamus]

Putting aside the matter of the boys for a moment: how good was your marriage these past few years? From both viewpoints? The reason I ask is that if she does as you hope, gives up the other man and decides to rebuild your marriage, then you need to be working on that too. An affair is less the cause of a breakdown in the marriage as it is the effect. Clearly she isn't happy with her relationship with you. That might still be all or mostly her fault. Some people are not cut out for marriage. Even so, it doesn't mean that she has to do all the changing to make the marriage satisfying once more.

Now, bring the boys back into the picture. It is very common in family arrangements like yours, in which one parent spends much more time with the children than the other, for the other parent to feel like they occupy an outer orbit while the primary parent and children form their own inner orbit. While marriage experts disagree, most say that in a healthy family it is the marriage that should occupy the inner orbit, not the children. If your family dynamic was very child-centered, then you both would need to work on changing things so that your marriage was at the center.

[Redwolf698]

Wow.

An Open Marriage Unit. That would be kind of an interesting life lesson for the kids. Talk about wanting your cake and eat it too...

Keep Moving Forward, it's going to be a tough row to hoe, but you have to know you can do it.